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Master of Magic - Implode's Multiplayer Edition • View topic - Master of Magic Re-revisited

Master of Magic Re-revisited

Details about file formats, structure and contents in the original Master of Magic

Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:35 am

Quite a few here were interested in the version of MOM that I run. Sorry I've been away for a month so I haven't gotten to it until now.

I've uploaded a .pdf of the changes I've made -- the link is below. It's like 70 pages long, but a lot of it is detail just for my own reference. I've played with this for a long time and I've found it to be fun and balanced. There are many changes, but at root the game is the same (just more fun!). Of particular interest might be the spells that I've added (Demon, Destruction, Hail Storm, Chill Touch, Contagion, Zombies, Acid Fog), notably changed (Star Fires, Black Channels, Ice Storm), deleted (Life Drain, Chaos Channels, Doom Mastery), as well as the overhaul of the races.

It's been a long time since I've played 1.31 so I may have lost objectivity. And of course, things have changed over time -- there have been about a dozen of my "versions" over the years as I've steadily made "improvements." As such, feel free to send me any suggestions or comments, as well as point out any typos/ambiguities I've made in the document. I'm always looking to improve what I play. I've modestly titled it MOM 2.0 :wink:

http://www.geocities.com/aureustgo/MOM2.0.pdf

You are welcome to use my copy of the game (or at least pending recommended changes) if it strikes your fancy. I'm not sure how many "special" files there will be but I'll zip them (into .rar format) and post them later. If you do use them, make sure to keep your 1.31 version backed up somewhere.

Aureus
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby ragnar-gd » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:53 pm

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:38 am

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby ragnar-gd » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:51 pm

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:34 pm

There is a MOMhack program that will allow you to make many changes to the game through a GUI. I don't have this anymore, but I'm sure someone here can help you dig it up.

You can also find some of the hex editing info (as it pertains to what address means what) somewhere on the web, or even on this very site. I have my own material and so it's probably easier if you dig up the stuff online so you can get the .doc files or whatever format is out there. If you type in wizards.exe and hack on google you'll probably get some results.

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Nehan » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:51 pm

Hey Aureus, could you post the modded game somewhere? It'd be greatly appreciated :) .
Warsaw isn't a kind of a battle saw. It's the capital of Poland.
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby ragnar-gd » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:32 pm

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby zitro » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:26 pm

From the pdf, most of the changes look great, I'll comment on a few I feel won't work at balancing things:

_Warship: of course, an attempt to get rid of the flying/invisible warships, but increasing their cost, giving them only 6 shots make them far too weak and pointless to build the maritime guild. You would rather use wyvern riders or griffins to help protect your galleys. I think they should have 8 shots, a bit more of melee, and maybe more defense.

_Races: Kudos generally, great balance and making myrrans more powerful make the 3-picks more worthy. I do not agree with:
1.High Men growing quickly tho, considering they were already a good race with pikemen/priests/magicians/paladins/being able to construct almost all.
2.Wyvern Riders seem even stronger than Griffins due to very high poison attacks and 12 melee, tho maybe my suggestion is slight, considering how weak orcs are before this unit. My suggestion is just 10melee, 10 poison.
3.Dark Elves' spearmen, now cheaper and with +1 to hit would be incredibly powerful. I think spearmen should cost as much as swordmen, due to having 8 figures.
4.Considering all the incredible buffs of the golem (+1 to hit, magic/missile/weapon immunities) and how useful dwarves already were, increasing their melee to 20 seems overkill. Maybe they should cost 240 gold/5upkeep, and melee around 15-18.

Creatures:
_Unicorns have a very high upkeep considering their low stats. +2 resistance to all is very nice tho (i think it used to be +1). Maybe increased their melee to 6?
_Yikes! Demon Lords are overkill, easily the best monster in the game with those stats (4 to hit?). Tho since Dark is sort of weak and relies on summons, maybe it should only have costs increased to about 1000/20.
_Werewolves seem too weak compared to the now cheaper Shadow Demons.
_Warbears and Sprites don't seem cheaper or stronger. I've felt the 0-to hit bears were pathetic, considering nature is the magic that supposedly is the strongest as summons (together with dark magic)


I didn't check much about items/heroes/spells ... regeneration seems a bit expensive tho ... I was thinking magic immunity as well, but in combat is now cheaper so I like the change actually ... I also like that invurnerability is a combat-only spell ... making archangels more useful. I also am a bit worried about the changing of 'star fires' but i'll have to play it to see.

As for these suggestions, maybe I'm pretty mistaken when I get to play the game.
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:12 pm

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby zitro » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:26 pm

As for warships, in terms of the 'flying/invisible' trick, I think rather than giving it 2 extra rocks, I have another idea, maybe you'd like it: make the warship more melee-based:

16 melee, 9 ranged (long range skill) 6 shield, 7 resistance, 30 hit points, 6 shots. Cost at least 200. It would really be a menace, galley protector, and annoy some weak flying/waterwalking units. It would of course wreck the transports (galleys) and they move quickly, so with wind mastery, you can really Rule the sea =) If given the flying spell, it would also be powerful, but so can a flying stag beetle or golem, or minotaur, etc...

I understand the point of High Men. First you need to survive, and High Men lacks good units to take out a close mage in the early/mid game. By then, wraights/gorgons/Shadow Demons/Nagas are probably more useful than paladins if you can handle the mana (and lets not talk about the big ones, which are now generally improved)

I do not know exactly how poison works, so wyverns are obviously not too overpowered then. (poison doesn't work like extra swords, right? and i forgot about poison immunity of the undead)

my idea regarding the dark elf spearman was that it probably is more useful in some situations than the more expensive swordman due to the 8-figure attack. However, I thought they had more shots. Then a swordman might be a bit better due to the large shield and 2 more melee and a halberdier obviously much better.

Yeah, for golems, 18 attack, 240 cost, 2 movement, and what it has would make one (if not the best) best units of the game. It balances out the problems with dwarves (hammerhands are too slow, you need to play with life or nature to move them around decently). Beforehand, the golem was kinda pathetic for a myrran race.

ohh, so it's the same? I thought the upkeep was initially 5, which was probably not even worth recruiting more than 1 anyways in each stack. I think how they originally were was pretty balanced.

I actually never played with demon lords, but I saw my father play. The statistics were low, but I noticed how good they can be. He had 2 of them and fought 2 sky drakes in a node, summoned 4 demons, which distracted the drakes and actually killed 1. Due to the speed of the drakes, the survivor attacked the demon lord twice and killed it. the remaining one wiht its demons killed the other. And of course, stealing life from both melee and ranged is extremely useful. It's just not so useful against dragons. I feel with all its improvements, a demon lord could kill a great drake because of the bad AI attacking demons instead.

my suggestion: drop hp to 25: still a fantastic creature, who should have its weaknesses (armor piercing magic and angels/archangels) since when combined with Death Knights, these Diablos can bring great support.

I forgot werewolves had weapon immunity! forget what I said =P

And as for sprite/warbears, it seems they have their uses.

Thanks for making skeletons with no upkeep. I can't imagine the possibilities. It's like having free cheap swordmans tho I think they do not reduce unrest. There are also units made much cheaper or stronger which was needed (chimeras/doombats/efreets/angels were pretty awful to me before)

any prediction when this mod would be available?
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:50 pm

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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby zitro » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:53 am

thanks for the explanation for poison, is that how it works for firebreath as well? these skills always confused me.

This is gonna be a LONG post but it's basically all the feedback I can give on how I feel each race and magic type is. Race-wise, I only called 2 races slightly unbalanced: much better than original master of magic which I would have called most races unbalanced. Magic wise, They seem quite improved and different. Some changes I'm not too fond of (Vertigo mostly), but for every change I don't like, there are like several I do like: It definitively surprised me how well balanced it seems to be.

Standard Units: It's so balanced! The halberdier 5melee, the cheaper shaman, the cheap bowman (what's it's upkeep?), swimming settlers sounded a bit weird, but if they help AI, then it's a creative solution and I like that they aren't ridiculously expensive for some races. galleys that damage more from ranged attacks was VERY needed, warships with 30hp is very nice maybe melee shouldn't increase as much as i previously suggested (11-13 instead?).

Races

Barbarians: Stronger than before. The noticeable benefits are supporting units: +2 rta and pathfinding so that berserkers can move 2 squares. Marauders also seem like great scouts. Overall, it fits the barbarian style of early expansion. Balanced.

Gnolls: Myrran-like quality of regular troops. Fast growth, fast and stronger wolf riders. Similar race to Barbarian, with even more emphasis on conquering cities quickly. No strong unit, but the other towns are for that. Balanced.

Halflings: New units are a great idea and good slinger support. That you increased the price of shaman shows how good you are at balancing every little thing. Excellent defenders, bad attackers. more food means more production or/and slingers. I can imagine that a summon-oriented mage would find it useful since they would leave slingers defending and attack with monsters. Balanced.

High Elves: thank you for making pegasai useful!! Very little changes, but it was already a strong race thanks to to-hit bonuses. Balanced.

High Men: balanced.

Klackons: Missile Immunity and +1 Production are excellent bonuses to my least favorite race. very bad water transport and no archers. Halberdiers seem like good early-units tho the race would be weak if it wasn't for the improved stag beetles. Balanced I think

Lizardmen: Wow, strong dragon turtles! Javelineers are unchanged but they were already among the best archers. The race is not that great, but great and cheap early units with water-walking gives a good headstart, so : balanced.

Nomads: my favorite race, now with better archers and better rangers. maaybe it's a bit stronger than the other races due to the cheaper fantastic stables, but not to the extent to call it unbalanced.

Orcs: such a crappy race, now it's on par with the others. faster growth and +1 attack help, cavalry didn't have first strike originally? Still crappy until you finally get your tremendous wyverns, but they are not great all-around due to poison-reliance. Balanced

Beastmen: cheap units, faster growth, tho can't build banks now. Centaurs needed improvement and got it. Manticores having ranged attacks was a nice change. Minotaurs brutal units if given endurance or flight. Balanced (for myrran)

Dark Elves: brutal ranged warriors with +1 to hit. Not expensive early units. outposts at least now are possible. Nightblades needing armorers was a nice touch. Nightmare's stats and planeshift is creative. Balanced.

draconians: Nice mages. non-mage units are pretty weak tho since airships have 4 rocks (but higher melee), and Doom Drakes seem to be equally vurnerable. Maybe improve those two units a bit since the mage units move by one. Not-so-balanced (IMO) unless you like to take advantage of the AI and leave flying units as defense and press done forever.

Dwarves: Swordmans are still decent no-upkeep units. Steam Cannon being cheaper helps. Golem, well I discussed that already. Balanced if the golem costs a bit more and has a bit less melee. +1 gold/production is a great bonus.

Trolls: Similar, late-units more balanced. War Mammoths are now incredibly strong, but if it weren't, trolls wouldn't be that great. Balanced.

Heroes: seems too complicated to read/review. There seems to be changes around Shuri to make her more normal and Torin.

Magic:
White: I don't understand the high upkeep of guardian spirits (3): they aren't great fighters, same for the unicorn, tho Angel/Archangel are on par with summons from other magic. I notice higher upkeeps on city enchantments which make sense, part from maybe heavenly light which I don't find too useful. Lionheart upkeep maybe could be (5-6), true sight seems too expensive as well. I like the higher cost of prayer and that invurnerability can only be cast in combat. Overall, pretty good and makes Life magic a bit more normal, but I feel a couple of upkeeps might be too high. Maybe make high prayer cost 70 mana instead?

Death: let me understand contagion, does it automatically kill any 4-8 figure unit with 2 or less hp? even warlocks? If so, maybe it could cost 35-40, due to death not being so much of a direct-damage type of magic. Chill Touch and Spectral Force are excellent spell ideas. I like that you got rid of some useless spells. Cloud of Shadow with 1 upkeep is a great idea. Cheaper darkness/terror balances things out. Summoning zombies is a great idea, Demons too, but I feel they should be rare, due to their weapon-immunity being too much of an advantage early on. I keep reading, this is all spot on. Creature-wise, Cheaper ghouls was a good idea, no upkeep skeletons is pretty awesome and would change the way we play. Shadow Demons maybe could cost 5 upkeep: they are very good units. Death Knights maybe 10, Demon lord maybe 20. I love the changes, I'll miss life-drain tho.

Chaos: Not the strongest magic, it seems that it's improved, apart from losing one of their best spells (chaos Channels) and armageddon being expensive. I don't understand the need for acid fog: it seems too similar to fireball. Maybe Chaos could use a spell that leaves an 3x3 or 5x5 square of lava and each unit that walks thru there takes damage (similar coding to firewall?). Great common/uncommon spell balances (tho wall of fire should maybe have its power doubled or its upkeep lowered), perfect creature balances. I love the changes. Creature-wise, I might suggest to improve gargoyles a bit like +1 hitpoint, but the lower cost makes it a bit more usable. Fire Giants are now pretty nice, Doom Bat/Chimeras more balanced, Chaos Spawn a nightmare that fortunately moves slowly. Efreet is awesome and Great Drake a bit powerful for its cost, but I notice the pattern of making the ultimate monster better in all magic types.

Nature: Not the strongest magic, and is luckily improved, despite pathfinding being expensive, which makes sense). I wouldn't miss Earth-to-Mud much (the AI can be annoying with it). I like the cheaper wall of stone/Nature's Eye: it gives emphasis to defense, which fits with Earth magic. Creature-wise, it's awesome and makes Nature competitive now. Making Colossus with 1movement was a cool idea for a unit that could defend a main city. I feel earth-elemental being cheaper would unbalance things a bit: it is a very powerful summon (25 melee, 30 hits, and now with many useful skills).

Sorcery: It's a great magic type. Here you improved/weakened various things. I agree with many, except a few. Creature Binding can turn the tide of combat (was it 100% chance?), invisibility's upkeep is as much as a demon lord, you can cast that spell during combat (as well as mass invisibility late in game). Magic immunity has insane upkeep, but I think it's intended so that you cast it during combat. My biggest complain in all spells is Vertigo. Me and my brother love Vertigo, giving a unit -2 to hit makes it very weak, plus it also takes out 1 defense. If a veteran griffin has 0-to-hit (30% change of damage), you leave it at (10% chance of damage, making your shields block the rest). It's a very powerful spell. I find it strange that you made it cost 40%. Creature wise, the units seem balanced and very fun to play.

items
: bah, that'll take me forever, I think I've already studied your pdf enough :)

These are of course only opinions, and I might even find them wrong myself considering the vast amount of strategies that could be used in this game as well as spell combos.
Last edited by zitro on Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Nehan » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:10 pm

Warsaw isn't a kind of a battle saw. It's the capital of Poland.
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby CustodianV131 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:48 pm

Would love to give this mod a go. Replaying MoM again atm and this would make things more interesting for sure! Can i download it somewhere?
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Re: Master of Magic Re-revisited

Postby Aureus » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:57 pm

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