MoM IME Expanded

Anything else to do with MoM IME
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Implode
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Implode » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:17 pm

Singularity wrote:Wait! Is it possible to make buildings exclusive to a race?
No but its possible to say that a race CAN'T build a certain building... so you could just add some weird new building and then edit every other race to say they can't get it :)

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Singularity » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:37 am

Let's outline the first ideas for the Orientals:

Buildings allowed would be:

Builders Hall, Shrine, Temple, Parthenon, Smithy, Armory, Stable, Sawmill, Foresters Guild, Marketplace, Farmers Market, Animists Guild, Alchemists Guild, Miners Guild, Library, Sages Guild, Fighters Guild, Armorers Guild, Ship Wrights Guild (and City Walls, of course).

And units:

Spearmen: Your standard basic unit, just like other races'.

Ashigaru: The common foot soldier of the Orientals is a levy from the lower castes of society. Lightly armored and with poor morale, often equips himself with gear stolen from fallen enemies. Stats would be similar to Swordsmen, but with 1 less Resistance point. Has a 1 Str. bow attack and Forester. Requires Smithy and Sawmill.

Priests: Again, just like your ordinary Priest unit, with its ranged attack, healing, purifying and Healing spell. Could be renamed to Shukenja, but only if given another special ability. A different or additional spell to cast, perhaps? I thought about Resist Elements.

Warrior Monks: Monastic men who train themselves in the finest forms of martial arts. 4 figures, with great attack and defense stats, no ranged attack and Resistance 12. Start with +2 to Hit and have Illusions Immunity. Their requirements are Temple and Fighters Guild.

Samurai: Obviously. Warriors from the noble castes. Combat stats would be similar to those of Paladins, but with 1 less Hit Point and Defense per figure (much lighter armor). They do not have Magic Immunity, but have a powerful Bow attack and a starting Resistance of 11. Requirements are Armorers Guild.

Ninja: You know they couldn't be put off. Assassins and spies, they are officially outcasts and no one would admit he employs him, as it is dishonorable. However, many lords hire them secretly to make the dirty work. Stats would be similar to Nightblades, but with less Hit Points. They compensate, however, with a Thrown attack (their shurikens and metsubishi).

No special bonuses for the race regarding Food or Production, but perhaps a +10 bonus to pop growth.

PD: Would be nice to borrown the AOW:SM idea of a special building for each race.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Iluvalar » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:41 pm

Singularity wrote:
Buildings allowed would be:

Builders Hall, Shrine, Temple, Parthenon, Smithy, Armory, Stable, Sawmill, Foresters Guild, Marketplace, Farmers Market, Animists Guild, Alchemists Guild, Miners Guild, Library, Sages Guild, Fighters Guild, Armorers Guild, Ship Wrights Guild (and City Walls, of course).
Ie : cannot build parthenon,ship yard,university

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:43 pm

I like it Singularity. Do they get a siege weapon (even if a catapult)? Also, how about a ship? I recommend Trireme, Galley, and a special ship, the Junk, for flavor, unless these are specifically Japanese in style. I could also see them with a pikeman style unit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship)
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Singularity » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:55 pm

We could replace the Trireme with the Junk as a transport ship, for sure. Could have lesser armor and HP, but be lighter and faster.

Didn't think about a siege weapon, but we could include with the Armorers Guild and Alchemists Guild a unit borrowed from Civ4 and korean flavoured: the Hwacha, a sort of ancient "rocket" launcher. And chinese flavored, those soldiers armed with repeating crossbows, with the Fighters Guild and the Sawmill. :)

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:56 pm

Repeating crossbows...cool!


And from above...finally: Ninjas. This will work well, especially because one of my planned factions has pirates lol.

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Gnomes

Post by Lucern » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:28 pm

Once again, I present the completed graphics and description for a race, my fourth race in fact. This makes 32 units so far to add to the original game's ~200, a mere 16% of the units, and a reminder of a good reason why we're keeping the original graphics of the game lol.

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/Lucern125/

Gnomes – Arcanian scholars have long noted that gnomes are among the more diminutive races of the planes, being slightly taller than halflings. These scholars also note that this is probably because unlike halflings, gnomes wear shoes and often amplify their height with tall hats. These scholars should be listened to, because a good number of them are gnomes themselves. Gnomes are among the best thinkers and tinkers on the planes, inventing useful technology and producing a jovial kind of philosophy. Gnomes have a particular fondness for alchemy and illusion, simultaneously the most methodical and most inventive magical pursuits. Other valued professions include inventors, who invent a range of ridiculous and highly dangerous objects and can only rarely be convinced to invent for purposes of war. The gnomes are known for their kind and glib hearts, and they will only do battle to protect themselves or end the planes of the nuissance of violent and stupid races. Their most hated races include goblins, dark elves, trolls, lizardmen, orcs, barbarians, sylves, gnolls, and klackons. Advantages include high technology, research, and economic buildings, with specialized units capable of rare feats. Disadvantages include below average birth rate, low health units, few melee units, and many indirect abilities for units, forcing their generals to be creative to get the job done.

Militia – Gnomish militia are volunteer forces of self-trained spearmen. It is a fair system that nonetheless produces forces barely adequate to defend small gnome settlements. They are visible from afar by their pointy hats denoting their allegiance. They work only for food to repay their brave efforts.

Swordsmen – As advanced as the gnomes are, they understand that the training of swordsmen is one of the most efficient means of dealing with the problems of violent outsiders. Gnomish swordsmen are chosen from the more athletically inclined in gnome general schools. They carry steel blades and wear generous chain armor.

Engineers – Gnomish engineers are chosen for their intelligence and their willingness to use this intelligence in dangerous situations. Engineers are trained better than many of their ilk in combat, carrying crossbows and supplies to demolish walls and build roads. They wear armor to help them reach their destination in tact.

Gunners – Gunners carry strange objects of gnomish invention. These “arquebuses” are not accurate by any means, but they cause great wounds on their enemies, halving the effects of armor. The gunners themselves are well armored so as to ensure that they get the maximum number of shots on target. If possible, gunners will not be able to fire on consecutive rounds.

Bards – Gnomish bards are practitioners of the vaunted professions of poetry, song, and swordplay. These are especially versed in gnomish theology, making them the closest thing gnomes field to priests. They are capable of minor feats of magic, as well as inspiring their troops to victory and participating in combat. They carry nimble rapiers and use their magic to dazzle opponents during melee.

Alchemists – Gnome alchemists spend night and day making helpful and noxious chemicals to aid their allies and destroy their enemies. They are capable of many feats of defense and offense that make many spellcasters jealous.

Illusionists – Gnome illusionists are brilliant and powerful spellcasters, capable of a high level of deception that benefits gnome-kind in battle. They summon illusionary warriors to the battlefield, and they are not the least bit fooled by any attempts at illusion by others.

Battle-Wagon – The gnomish battle wagon is an armored, slow, rolling terror on the battlefield. Its crew fires gunpowder based artillery which can be devastating at close range. Its hardened wood and reinforced steel frame ensures that it can reach close range no matter how slowly it rolls.

Air Ship – Unlike its draconian counterpart, the gnome airship relies on no magic for its flight, making it the first such object ever invented on Arcanus. It fires ballistae from on high as well as transports gnomes and their allies great distances. It is a mechanical marvel that has shaped the way gnomes think about empire design, but it is slightly-and potentially fatally- flammable.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:38 am

Warlords and wizards: I bring to you a glimpse of my fifth race, called (with some conjecture) the Free Men. The Free Men are a faction representing hives of lawlessness. This means that they field plenty of brigands and pirates, but it also means that undesirables from other factions find themselves here. Below you'll find the design document description of the race and unit descriptions. The link leads to tiny tiny pics best viewed by downloading and opening them. By the numbers, this is 41 units I've done so far.

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/Lucern125/

Free Men: Free men are not so much a race as they are independent hives of greed, treachery, and lechery. In fact, only among Free-Men are they known as such – elsewhere they are known as thieves and outlaws. Nevertheless, Free Men have a distinct society, forming communities around their mutual protection and occasional collaboration. Within these cities there is surprisingly little violence, as each town is generally ruled by a powerful crime boss. Fighting free-men include brigands, pirates and spies. Free Men are despised by most races, with the exceptions of goblins, orcs, gnolls, dark elves, and halflings – races who either value their anarchistic ways or have a vaunted tradition of brigandry. Conversely, free men cannot stand to be captured, and will try to overthrow most would-be rulers. Strategically, their advantages are skillful specialist units, superior shipbuilding, and a high economic standing. Their disadvantages include greedy units, few religious or research buildings, and units with low resistance.

Brigands – Brigands are a self-selecting bunch of young thugs who want to show the city bosses that they are loyal and tough by forming bands of brigands. Brigands are on the Free Man payroll, and will harass anyone the Bosses ask them to with gusto. They are tenacious fighters, each trying to prove himself the strongest and most worthy of promotion, which makes up for their generally shoddy equipment.

Brigand Archers – Brigand archers are dangerous opponents, usually comprised of bands of poachers, street thugs, and bowmen who have fled an army of Arcanus and had nowhere to go. They loose their arrows with some skill, though they are notorious for retiring early from the fight when either their arrows run dry or their enemies get too close.

Pirates – Pirates take to the seas to prey on seafaring merchants. They are known for being resilient combatants on land or at sea, being particularly effective raiders. They also swim and hurl knives into battle before engaging, which is important because those at sea most of their lives cannot afford to wear heavy armor. They are skilled swordsmen, but they carry no shields.

Highwaymen – Highwaymen are horsemen who ride up and down Arcanus' roads looking for wealthy travelers to rob. Tales of the bravery and style of highwaymen are well known throughout the planes, and this is not unwarranted. They carry broadswords and wear chain armor, which they cover under flashy clothing.

Cultists – Free-Men cities attract many cults, which offer their members to the service of the city in exchange for privacy and non-interference with their strange rituals. Cultists do much of the farming and building in Free-Man towns, but the ones pressed into military service are those who can summon the aid of their strange gods to help out in, and after the battle. These people are further trained in healing in the likely event that their cult does not value the preservation of life.

Necromancers – Necromancers, even in the best of circumstances, tend to defile graveyards. This tends to get them expelled from communities all over Arcanus. In Free Men cities, where people often die unknown, graveyards are not quite as respected. Necromancers are, however, respected for the power they bring to the battlefield. Necromancers can summon low level undead as well as hurl destructive magic from a distance, making even a single squad of necromancers a formidable opponent if properly supported.

Spy – The Free-Men, who try to remain neutral in most large conflicts, nevertheless train networks of spies to observe, sabotage, and sometimes assassinate opponents. The spy's main strength is his utter invisibility, granted by his training. He sees far and wide, which represents the knowledge he gains from contacts as well as his physical skulking about.

Adventurers – Adventurers are the quintessential Free-Men. Arcanus is full of second-born sons who will inherit no land, rebel daughters betrothed to boring suitors, and peasants trying to improve their lot in society. Adventurers in Free-Man cities represent those who have been quite successful in this endeavor – each squad is essentially a party, replete with a diversity of skills for any number of situations. They have substantial ranged attack, melee attack, defense, and resistance, and have many abilities at their disposal. Adventurers will annihilate one-trick armies, but can be defeated by sheer numbers or a clever use of combined arms. Elite adventurers can solve as many problems as they tend to cause around Arcanus.

Caravel – The Caravel is a tall 3-masted ship built by Free Men to fulfill their need for a fast and strong warship. It can sail rings around galleys and easily outrun the Warships fielded by High Men and Orcs. This gives Free Men pirates a measured mastery of the sea, allowing them to put their raiders anywhere they wish with great speed. Though caravels stand a chance against Warships on the high seas, their captains should not think themselves superior in every way.

Next up, I'm thinking horde tactics and testing MoM IME's fantastic unit expander ability: Kobolds.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Korenn » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:41 pm

how far are these races from actually being playable?

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:54 pm

Closer and farther than you might think. The graphics, which, time-wise, are the hard part, are complete for every unit I've listed. I do need to make the little farmers/builders/rebels for each group. There is, however, a considerable task in assigning new units these frames within the editor. I'm currently hesitant to potentially waste hours doing this final part because I do not know how I could affix the units onto the next version of MoM IME without having to go in and do it again. Or how I could add the units to both "Vanilla" and the improved version of IME without having to do each unit manually. I'll manually put them in once, but if you're familiar with what it entails, you'll understand why I don't want to to it for every version of IME. Right now that would be 1368 different tasks of going in and choosing the proper graphics file, and then a simpler (but still delicate) task of assigning stats. I have some pics of some goblin spearmen just as a proof of concept to myself that I know how to do this. The editor is so easy, by the way, that you'll just be able to shift around unit stats and abilities to your liking, but don't try to enter a multiplayer game with the modded-mod lol.

So, if anyone knows a way where we're 100% sure that I don't waste more time than I need to assigning frames, I'd be happy to hear about it and you guys could fill your worlds with centaurs, goblins, and other beasties. It is my understanding that Implode plans to have a patching system at some point (not as a priority or anything), so until I hear that there's another way, that's my cue to launch what I've got. In the meanwhile, I'm having fun drawing up more races.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Korenn » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:51 am

So there is an editor already? That's good, I thought you were editing data files by hand ;)

As a coder and a MoM-fanatic, I might be able to help you automatize some of those tasks, if they're really repetitive. What are the things you have to do, step by step, to get a unit into MoMIME? (or plain MoM)

oh and as a wow fan I hope you do requests as well? I think the pandaren would be awesome to play with :D

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:14 am

Hey Korenn,

You know, I was hoping a coder and MoM fanatic would come by and help automate this process.

I'll help anyone who's interested in doing their own races, but there's enough time involved that I won't claim to take requests at least until i've got all my ideas out. I think races are best made by those who have solid ideas about their composition and strategic uniqueness, so I definitely don't think I'm the guy to bring Pandaren to life, seeing as how I didn't know what they were until about 5 minutes ago lol.

However, I'll make a Pandaren hero named Korenn in your honor if you can pull this off, or a panda-bear changeling unit in a changeling race I'm planning. Download the editor and give it a look, and when I'm not dog-tired (after a good sleep), I'll lay out the details for the process of assigning frames into the editor better than I could right now. At that point you can give it a go and let me know whether or not it's possible.

Lucern

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Korenn » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:13 am

Heh :)

I found the editors, so I'll have a look at them.

[edit] Good lord O.o
It looks like a powerful tool, but written from the programmers' perspective, not the editors' ;)
I'm still not sure how it all hooks together, so I'll look forward to seeing what it actually takes to add a new graphic in there.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:22 am

Alright, so here's how you add unit graphics to the game:

Start up the Edit Graphics XML editor (with whatever .xml file you want to be editing..there's probably only one). Go to Edit → Units → Units, which opens a database of all of the units in the game with their graphics. Now you'll add on your unit (in my case, I'll define the race beforehand), taking a number after 199. At this point, you can add things that are much easier than the animations: overland unit pic, hero portraits, and you can also tell it which summoning animation to use if you want. You can give it overland animations, though that's Implode's thoughts towards other games where such animations might be used. This is the smallest chunk of work involved, so automating this would be a waste.

However, you should do this step to move on to the one with all of the editing. Go to Animations under the edit tab. You'll see another database. Once you know what number your unit is (from the above step) hit New off to the right. You'll see three windows that..if these could be automated, this would be awesome. The three windows are:

1) Unit ID. The format of this is: UNXXX_DY_WALKFLY
and: UN XXX_DY_MELEE
Where XXX is the unit ID. Will be 199 if you're making your first test.
Y is the direction of the unit for that animation, clockwise. 1 means up. 2 means Up-Right. 3 means Right. 4 means Right-Down. 5 means Down. 6 means Down-Left. 7 means Left. 8 means Up-left. That's all 8 directions a unit can face in MoM.

So the last unit in the list, Nagas are unit number 198. If you make them slither to the left, the game will use the frames in Unit ID UN198_D7_WALKFLY. If they attack in the down right position the game uses the frames in UN198_D4_MELEE.

So go ahead and start with UN199_D1_WALKFLY for your tested unit walking upwards.

2) Description. This is not formulaic, but nor is it trivial. Here you tell the game what the Unit ID means for each line. Automating this would be awesome, as it seriously bogs one down. We might as well formulate it now. Using the nagas again, the description for UN198_D7_WALKFLY is “Nagas walking/flying left.” For my own unit 199, my goblin spearmen, it should say “Goblin Spearmen melee attacking up-right”

So that's “[Name of the race][Name of Unit] [Action (Either “melee attacking” or “walking/flying)”][Direction].

3) Speed. This always seems to say 6, so it may as well stay 6.

...................

So now you have a single line that you need to add frames to. A single unit needs 16 of these lines. 8 of them are of the WALK/FLY variety in all directions, and 8 are of the MELEE variety. The order doesn't matter. All we've done so far is create the framework for us to put our frames in. Implode's graphics extractor kept a very standard naming system to the units, and since it would be insane to create graphics from scratch, we can safely assume that graphic makers are going to use some files as a reference point. These are also going to be in sub folders to organize them, because the files themselves are basically nonsense at first glance.

Let's assume that we've made the UN199_D1_WALKFLY line. Click “Frames” off to the right and you'll see a new window where we're going to see some tiny images of what we've made. WALKFLY lines always have four frames, 2 for walking, and 2 for flying. I'll describe the file names of Implode's graphics extractor in case it's helpful for automation purposes.

Looking where I keep my graphics files, there are 4 frames for everything involving this direction:

Figures6_112_000 - This is a walking motion
Figures6_112_001 – This is the 'stand' image for that direction
Figures6_112_002 – This is kindof a nebulous one that I generally interpret as 'getting ready to attack, and it can usually be used for 'I'm flying!” too. My units will probably have a stupid flying animation but a cooler attack animation, so I think I misinterpreted that in a good way lol.
Figures6_112_003 – This is the attack animation.

The 000 file is always the walking, the 001 is always the standing still, the 002 is always the in-between, and 003 is always the attack animation.

So, to the point. The frames for WALKFLY are always in this order: 000, 001, 002, 001. That way, you'll always start from 001, walk the first way, stand, walk the second way, stand, walk the first way, etc.
The frames for MELEE are always 001, 003. MELEE only has 2 frames. Stand, Fight, Stand, Fight.

If you can extract the graphics from the game with Implode's graphics extractor, get all 32 frames that are bunched together for any unit that you're familiar with, and this system will make a bit more sense. It'll also help you test out any system you code.

In any case, from here, since we're doing UN199_D1_WALKFLY, you'd go in and put the files in this order:

Figures6_112_000
Figures6_112_001
Figures6_112_002
Figures6_112_001

If we were doing the attack animation for the next line, UN199_D1_MELEE, the you'd get the files in there like so:

Figures6_112_001
Figures6_112_003

By go in, I mean click Frames, and click New on the right. You have to actually type in the file name from this point, which is easily the most onerous task of this whole process. You can't drag, you don't give it file structure and browse. You type exactly “Figure6_112_000” (and you don't need the .bmp)., then add the 001, and then the 002, and then the last 001. You don't need a file number...as I think that was a product of the Lbx file structure rather than a bunch of .bmps in a folder.

Whether you can do anything with this, thanks for asking me to do it...I've realized that my system of keeping things in subfolders, some of which have the same file name, isn't going to fly. Fortunately Vista will rename them for me if I try to move them in one big nasty folder. I've also realized that since this is just an .xml file...patching will have no effect on it. I could theoretically be doing this as I go along. But if there's any way to facilitate especially that last part where you type in file names, this would go much faster and make a better editor all around.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Korenn » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:32 pm

Lucern wrote:Alright, so here's how you add unit graphics to the game:

[...]

Whether you can do anything with this, thanks for asking me to do it...I've realized that my system of keeping things in subfolders, some of which have the same file name, isn't going to fly. Fortunately Vista will rename them for me if I try to move them in one big nasty folder. I've also realized that since this is just an .xml file...patching will have no effect on it. I could theoretically be doing this as I go along. But if there's any way to facilitate especially that last part where you type in file names, this would go much faster and make a better editor all around.
Most of that should be easily automated, and made easier to use, as long as I can get access to the editor code ;)
As I understood it, Implode doesn't mind giving out the editor code, so that should be ok (I'll mail him). I also read that it's java, which means that extending it to have nice browse and drag-and-drop features for file names should be almost trivial to implement. If it's not java, that will just take a bit longer.

Automating the generation of the UNXXX_DY_WALKFLY IDs also should be possible.
Concerning “[Name of the race][Name of Unit] [Action (Either 'melee attacking' or 'walking/flying)'][Direction]", are 'name of race' and 'name of unit' defined earlier? if so, this can be generated from that as well. I notice from looking at the default units (e.g. the nagas) that those strings aren't present in all graphic definitions. To be more precise, it appears to only be present for those definitions where there isn't a picture to be seen in the editor. Any idea why this is so?

Right now I'm thinking it might be easiest to create a wizard for 'add unit', which handles generating all the different entries from a couple of base variables you enter (like unit id, unit name, graphics path, etc).

But are these really all the steps you have to take? It sounds laborious, but to me it looks like it's missing graphics offsets. And what about defining sound effects?

I assume that after the graphics have been defined, you create the actual unit stats somewhere else and then reference these? How does that bit work?

[update]
OK, I've been poking around in the editor a bit more with your explanation as a guide, and I think I get this a bit more. As far as I see it, you can give your animation definitions whatever name you want, as long as you reference the right name from the combat action in your unit definition. The speed appears to be the playback speed, which happens to be 6 for all units (but is not 6 for other animations).

As long as you're consistent in both the graphics and rules xml files, the unit itself does not actually need to have the string 'UNXXX' as name, you can choose something else as well, which is a good thing. For extension purposes, it's probably best *not* to make your own units have the name UN199 and onwards, because someone else might use that unit id as well in their own creation, making the two incompatible. You should probably pick an id along the lines of LUCERNUN001 and count from those. At this point it appears to be a huge hassle (or practically impossible) to combine additions from different people in the same game, but I'm sure that will be made easier in the future.

My comment about the animation text string not always being present refers to the 'combat images' window, not the animations window. I don't understand what the 'combat images' window is supposed to show, but it's not consistent.

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