MoM IME Expanded

Anything else to do with MoM IME
elliott20
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:26 am

well, right now all we've done is talk about ideas and creation concepts. the REAL work is in creating the images and fitting all of them to the actual game itself.

We are also faced with another problem, that is, each mod we see needs to be applied individually, one by one to the engine. I think what would be really cool in the future is to have each race be consisted of a "pack" of files that are independent of the engine, all it takes is an app that can procedurally add the whole new content to the game without having the user go through each unit and stat block and adding it individually.

so, maybe there'd be an app/wizard that allows you to add a new spell, one that allows you to add new units, one that allows you to add new buildings, and one that allows you to add entire new races in one single go.

McTaff
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by McTaff » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:02 am

elliott20 wrote:well, right now all we've done is talk about ideas and creation concepts. the REAL work is in creating the images and fitting all of them to the actual game itself.

We are also faced with another problem, that is, each mod we see needs to be applied individually, one by one to the engine. I think what would be really cool in the future is to have each race be consisted of a "pack" of files that are independent of the engine, all it takes is an app that can procedurally add the whole new content to the game without having the user go through each unit and stat block and adding it individually.

so, maybe there'd be an app/wizard that allows you to add a new spell, one that allows you to add new units, one that allows you to add new buildings, and one that allows you to add entire new races in one single go.
Wouldn't that completely botch up the programming? I'm no programmer, but in a related forum once someone wanted to add a unit, only to find that not only did everything for that side have to be reprogrammed, the AI had to be 'taught' how to apply decision making for the unit, be programmed how to use it, when to build it - and THEN had to be taught how to recognise the unit in combat and how to try to defeat it.

Potentially botches up the game unless the game has the items/spells/units stored in separate files... and indexes, evaluates and devises strategy (for use and also against) them as part of the boot/loading/end-of-turn sequences. If there is no AI, it becomes a hell of a lot easier, mind...

ragnar-gd
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by ragnar-gd » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:03 pm

McTaff wrote: [...] Potentially botches up the game unless the game has the items/spells/units stored in separate files... and indexes, evaluates and devises strategy (for use and also against) them as part of the boot/loading/end-of-turn sequences. If there is no AI, it becomes a hell of a lot easier, mind...
The first aim in IME should be playability between players, that is a given. Programming a good AI belongs to one of the most difficult problems there are in game developement - and still, a good player can beat the shi* out of most games (Civ IV being an exception, among a very few others - but we don't have that kind of programmers amidst us, now, don't we?). AI definitely is work for pros.
More of a vision should be - after we can play at all -, to allow balanced multiplayer sessions. There is enough to be done with the imbalance between light an death magic, to name an example.
Just my 2 cent...
Ragnar-GD

elliott20
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:30 am

McTaff: that is a good consideration, and one that I think requires far more discussion. But ranger-gd has pretty much mirrored my sentiment. I believe that implode simply wants to first be able to make the game playable in it's original version first, and then perfect the playability between multiplayers second. other things like AI and all that, I think the only way you can really handle it is by creating custom behavior tags that you attach to units so the computer with a built in AI engine will automatically know how to handle a unit just by looking at it's tags.

Virm
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Virm » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:29 pm

McTaff wrote:Wouldn't that completely botch up the programming? I'm no programmer, but in a related forum once someone wanted to add a unit, only to find that not only did everything for that side have to be reprogrammed, the AI had to be 'taught' how to apply decision making for the unit, be programmed how to use it, when to build it - and THEN had to be taught how to recognise the unit in combat and how to try to defeat it.

Potentially botches up the game unless the game has the items/spells/units stored in separate files... and indexes, evaluates and devises strategy (for use and also against) them as part of the boot/loading/end-of-turn sequences. If there is no AI, it becomes a hell of a lot easier, mind...
The answer to that depends entirely upon the initial framework of the engine and it's components. If the AI is designed to be purely static (AI is always the same regardless of race, etc.) or looks at race information for dynamic processing, then adding new races would be painless from the user standpoint. The most likely way for problems to arrise would be if the AI is designed static, but makes decisions based on which race it is from a pre-programmed list of the initial races. In which case, it would be near impossible for the end-user to import new races without radical changes to the program itself.

Aside from the AI aspect, making a programatic front-end for adding/removing races shouldn't be too difficult really. Everything is contained in xml files currently, which are easy enough to work with. Even easier if Implode does something like adding a directory to the program heirarchy where any xml files within that dir are automatically applied on top of the existing xml files. But whether that happens or not, a user-friendly program for race/building/addon management should be doable.

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:42 am

Virm wrote:But whether that happens or not, a user-friendly program for race/building/addon management should be doable.
It's heartening to see someone else say this.

Alright, warlords and warlocks, I present to you my entry for MoM IME Expanded's sixth race, the Kobolds, 8 units comprising units 42-49. You can check out the tiny, tiny graphics here: http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/Lucern125/

As always, if you want to see the graphics it's best to download them and zoom in pretty far to see them at a reasonable level, particularly since these guys are even smaller than goblins. Since it's been awhile, I'll mention that green shades generally represent colors that will be replaced by your Wizard's color. The background is just aesthetic, to spare you from the sea of fuchsia that I look at when I make these lol. Next, I think I'll make some buildings just to try something I've thought would be relatively simple but fun. Your thoughts and ideas are welcome and are always possible to invade my psyche as I work further :D Working out the exact mechanics of statistics, strategic roles and abilities will be an ongoing process...not exactly set in stone now.

Kobolds – In extensive caverns far underneath Arcanus, many beings lurk about in ignorance of the trials above ground. Kobolds have eked out an existence for thousands of years, known only to Arcanus when they found settlements and begin to raid the surface. Kobolds are the fastest growing population on any known plane, boasting an astounding birth rate. However, their stature generally keeps them from overrunning Arcanus. Kobolds are cunning hunters, capable of rooting out many kinds of prey, large and small from the depths of the caverns. A few are gifted spellcasters. Kobold cities are cruel places, with prestige and power revolving around property, especially slaves. There is always a single tyrant running the show in kobold settlements, replete with absolute power. Kobolds despise several races of the Planes, such that it is easier to list their frequent allies: goblins, trolls, gnolls, orcs, lizardmen, and dark elves. Kobold advantages include the highest population growth and high unit figure counts, unusual starting location (if I can hack it), and buildings that few others will allow themselves to build. Disadvantages include weak physical statistics and low technology in areas of religion and magic research

Shortspears – Shortspears are young kobolds pressed into military service by city tyrants. They form huge squads, such that every opponent is often faced by 2 or more kobolds each. Shortspears are weak, unskilled, and motivated only by fear, but their numbers have proven decisive in more than a few battles.
Hunting Pack – Hunting packs are javelin-armed kobolds who roam caves in search of anything that can be brought back to their settlements as food. They also protect Kobold territory fiercely, and they are swiftly mobilized to provide missile support to kobold war parties. They are well equipped for missile attacks and are surprisingly competent in melee. Just as shortspears, hunting packs rely on numbers to decimate their opponents. The effect of experience upon these units is substantial given these large numbers.
Slaves – Kobold slaves are survivors of bloody gladiatorial combat. In the field, however, they fight with less enthusiasm, probably out of a desire to see Kobolds annihilated. It is believed that they are drugged by Shamans to reduce their willpower. This makes them particularly vulnerable to magical attacks. They wear no armor and carry only clubs and wooden shields, but they do far more with these materials than any of their free counterparts would. They cost only food to sustain them once they are organized for battle.
War Dogs – War Dogs are huge canines bred for size and ferocity. They can be seen guarding important kobolds and valuable treasures. They are among the most well-trained animals in Arcanus, not even needing riders to follow combat drills. Note that their tactics are not complicated, generally involving picking an opponent, chasing them down, killing them, and chewing on them until their handlers retrieve them.
Shamans – Kobold Shamans hold the secrets of healing and poison. They are generally considered to have been born with their powers given their darker coloration, but in fact this skin only sets their occupation in life. Shamans spend years alone in the caves experimenting with mushrooms, insects, and lizards to unlock secrets of Arcanus and maintain their high status as wizards in kobold society. Shamans can purify the land around them, heal their allies in battle and cast weakening spells, though they are not powerful combatants in a direct sense: they wear no armor and defend themselves only with enchanted staves made of the roots that penetrate cave walls.
Sorcerers – Sorcerers are kobolds seemingly born with a penchant for destruction. They are spoiled brats growing up – getting the best lizards and mushrooms that can be found before others, being given mating partners first, and living in secluded parts of kobold towns in large but often singed huts. They are uncaring combatants, working only for gold and the love of burnt flesh, but they unleash a devastating volley in a small package. Structures that enable sorcerers are really training them in the use of their abilities when directed and without burning the kobold standing next to them.
Assault Squad – Assault Squads are well equipped and trained tactical kobold teams that excel in a variety of tasks. They are trained from birth to ensure their combat viability in a Kobold's short lifespan. In that time they grow strong and agile, and they are trained in a number of pursuits related to stealth and field combat. They unleash volleys of poisonous arrows, after which they serve as shock troops to kill off remaining opponents.
Drill The drill is a unique kobold siege engine, originally developed for the purposes of surprising enemy settlements underground (often other kobolds) by drilling through the very stone of their caverns and then through the stone of their walls. It is armored to ensure that it accomplishes that exactly. The kobolds inside have actually been known to catch slow-moving or pinned enemies in their drill afterwards, as its wooden armor is fairly resilient.

Edit...lol, Photobucket cuts the unit names after a few characters. Guess what Kobold Assault Squad becomes...

elliott20
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:42 am

LOL, kobold derrier.

ooo, I need to come up with a kobold hero for this race!

hmm... how about Dravnon the Draco-Blood?

Dravnon is not really of draconic origins, but he would like to think he is. (Just as many other kobolds like to fancy themselves)
Dravnon, however, also has the power of sorcery in his blood, which to many helps lend credence to his claim of draconic origins. Dravnon, by the way, can be treated either as a hero or perhaps an optional wizard for the kobold race.

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:05 am

Hey Elliott,

I'd love to see Dravnon as a kobold hero or wizard. If you intend to make a hero at some point, graphics and all, I can send you my war dogs and sorcerers, and you can try to put one on top of the other, give him a flag, and recolor the cloak. Or maybe he should fly a wyvern...or...we could put him atop my new drill lol.

As for wizards, I tend to think that my new races could use wizards that tend to use them as their main race, whether or not they're part of that race (like, we don't have a dwarven wizard). Wizards present some interesting new challenges graphics-wise though...much bigger scale to test one's mid 90's era SVGA skillz. Off the top of my head, there's at least 6 distinct drawings - the big portrait, the diplomacy animation, the summoning pose, the smaller frame for the mirror, the smaller representation on the 'gem', the 'running in and killing/banishing another wizard' graphic, and the "I rule Arcanus and Myrror, I am the one true Master of Magic" animation. That's pretty tough to pull off, all in all, though I wouldn't mind new wizards with a set of generic images for less important animations if I got a solid diplomacy face and portrait in there, so that it'd feel like a new wizard when it's important. I'd love to see new wizards though...I, for one, hope to be playing with all 14 wizards and then some when this is up and running. I could definitely see a kobold wizard in there, bloodthirsty git he'd be. I might be inclined to base him on the shaman, or a cross between shaman and sorcerer.

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:45 am

Hello everyone. Hello Post-bot.

I thought I'd post my latest work here. It's nothing massive, but it is new content all the same, not to mention 2 new types of content. These are almost big enough that you don't have to download them to get a decent look. Almost ;)

First, we have five buildings. Now, the astute and eye-strained among you will spot that this isn't MoM IME, nor are those buildings really in the game. I fiddled with that, but my client couldn't connect to my server any more, after I just reinstalled it, when I went to test the coordinates of the buildings. Yeah, that experiment ended early. I don't think it'll be very hard to get buildings into the game, really. They're quick to draw, and quick to install. I have no proof of that last part of course. I welcome your suggestions or submissions for future buildings. They're really quite simple, such that I may just cook up any suggestions pretty quickly. Now, I did see a graphical limitation of where one would put new buildings, but the simplest answer to this is that each of these is meant for a single faction, one that cannot build all of the buildings anyway. You have to give it X,Y, coordinates for the graphics.xml, so you can just replace those with something nearly identical. On that screen I have:

The Ivory Tower - Gnomes will construct this building after the university for another boost to research, meant to outweigh their lack of religious buildings. They'll get more research out of the deal but less raw magic. With a structure like this, the thought occurs to me that it'd be cool if there was a way to have unique buildings. Like, any wizard can only have one (kinda like their own wizard's tower already), or a heavily boosted version that can only be built once in the game. Kinda like wonders of the world in Civ.
An off-white stone building - This could be anything...put a couple of banners near the door and it's ready.
A nasty looking mud-brick structure with a fence - This could either be a chief's hut in a primitive society, slave quarters for kobolds, or even some goblin warrens.
A Necromancer's spire - Meant for the 'free men' in lieu of the Magician's Tower, simply an obvious aesthetic option for them. The top sparks with arcane magic. I thought about making a graveyard next to it, but space is a commodity here. In any case, I imagine the top to be glass, so that the necromancers can work under moonlight, the magic lighting up their lab.
A laboratory - Intended for higher technology factions that are building something like magical constructs, flying machines, and the like, rather than the fantastic stable. The animated version has smoke pouring out of the chimney, a pipe that collects water and drips it onto the rooftop pool (for those elemental research projects), and lights that flicker inside.

I don't have specific plans for much more, other than a Sylvan Glade for the sylves to build their top unit (in lieu of the fantastic stable and war college) and a gambling hall that boosts revenue for factions that won't do much banking but you just know that their leaders have some other way of getting money from its citizens beyond taxation. I'm taking the discussions on this board about buildings into consideration, making sure to not have only aesthetic choices that amount to confusion for the players. New buildings that can serve as alternate routes of advancement for your cities is strategically sophisticated, and even if you don't manage to have alternate routes, simply having a couple of different/unique structures for a faction is a more sophisticated way to balance them than only telling them what they can't build that everyone else can. We can all handle 1 or 2 different buildings for a race if the game gives info about it, especially if it makes the handling of each race different enough to be strategically interesting.

But wait, there's more! I also drew up a new wizard. That link is the same dimensions as the portraits you see when you choose a wizard. I wanted to try my hand at some of the more advanced graphics, and though I have no illusions that this guy is of the same quality as the original MoM wizards, I don't think he's bad enough so that you'd be distracted by him when you're playing. Oh yeah, except that he's a tree :D. He'll join Oberic and S'rra as the only obvious non-human wizards (is Horus a halfling?) . Going into the fine detail of those original wizards, I'm reminded that though the graphics may be old, there were genuine artists behind them who did amazing things with the new SVGA. I made this guy for a few reasons. One, the more wizards we have, the more potential players you can use when MoM IME is ready, and I for one always play with the max allowed. Secondly, I wanted to see if I could manage the graphics at this scale, which is orders of magnitude higher than I've done with the units. Thirdly, I started with a non-human, not-very-expressive entity because it's easier. His floating point eyes will change in accordance with his mood, and potentially his eyes and mouth might change shape, but that's going to be creepy lol. There are several other conditions where one must provide wizard graphics...some of them I find crucial (all the ones related to diplomacy ((including the talky animations)), the mirror, and the first portrait. Others I have no problem using stand-ins...like when your wizard conquers another...those graphics are bewildering when extracted frame by frame, or when your wizard conquers everything - if those require a lot of work...well you almost never see them. Incidentally, rather than drawing an Ent casting for summons and such, I'm going to have his summoning screen caster be a simple light-spirit of some kind, like a will-o-the wisp. For those who are wondering, I don't so much have a plan for what his in-game version will have...all nature books makes sense but is already taken. His name is up for suggestions too.

elliott20
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:02 am

Woah... an Ent wizard. His default name should be treebeard.

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:33 am

hah...the thought occurred to me. Though, perhaps he has many names, only a few of which are pronounceable by our tongues ;)

That sparked me to look up a bit of Tolkien, as he's got a wealth of names, some quite cool. I came across a character named Old Man Willow (similar character, it sounds like), and the idea of simply calling him Old _________ might be good. Old Oak. Old Willow. Then it occurred to me to look at the druidic names given for trees in an old adventure game I had...Robin Hood: Conquest of the Longbow, and there some good ones there, I think. Duir is the name given for Oak. Fearn is given for Alder. Nion for Ash. Gort for Ivy (heheh), Ailm for Fir. Ruis for Elder.

The thought also occurred to me to make a Sylve hero, the Rhyzar specifically - the 3 eyed root being that can meld into and teleport through root systems. A teleporting melee hero could be unusual enough to be interesting. Failing that, the vinewhip class of sylve could make a good hero.

Naturally, it also occurred to me that I gotta move on from plants lol.

elliott20
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:28 am

there is also the issue of what kind of byzantine coding it would take to create a hero who teleports primarily through "vines". I guess it would sort of be one of those "can teleport on all green spaces" kind of heroes.

So, in order to make a new wizard, we need:

talking animation
face frame
smaller face frame
standing frame
destroyed animation (once you've established it once though, it seems like it will be pretty easy to do for multiple wizards, it's always the "get zapped, swirl away out of existence")
destroying animation (when he shows up in OTHER wizard's towers to destroy them)
and winning animation (which seems like it can just be the talking face animation with a different color mask)

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:47 am

elliott20 wrote:there is also the issue of what kind of byzantine coding it would take to create a hero who teleports primarily through "vines". I guess it would sort of be one of those "can teleport on all green spaces" kind of heroes.
:oops: I was just thinking I'd give them teleport. That's okay...it's nice to have people with standards around :D I think you got all of the pieces of art that Wizards need. I don't think our current graphics extractor is doing all of those correctly...particularly the win/lose animations. I could be wrong in my thinking about how the game interprets those crazy colors that it extracts.

Now to the business at hand. In the past week or so, I've played two full games on Impossible. I had a blast. Just getting back to the goodness of MoM's gameplay is refreshing. Because of it, I kicked my graphics production into gear. Not high gear..but some gear other than idle ;). I present to you my seventh race, the Ogres. They were a nice reminder that big races take a lot longer to draw than tiny ones. That's okay...MoM is a classic fantasy game - it needs ogres. This is fully half of the races in normal MoM...I'm going to need that new plane I think.

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/Lucern125/

Ogres – Ogres are large, dim-witted, greedy humanoids with a penchant for raiding, war, and flesh of smaller humanoids. Ogres are obedient to those they recognize as stronger than they are, which makes them suitable minions for an aspiring wizard but few others. They are a superstitious lot, untalented in magic except for a few seemingly born with the ability. They get along well with races who share their violent penchants, and they despise those who actually try to stand in their way: halflings, high elves, high men, nomads, gnomes and dwarves especially. Ogre advantages are on the battlefield: they have high hitpoints, thick hide armors, and high attack values. Most have fairly low resists, representing their feeble minds relative to their size. Disadvantages are many: low technology, especially in magic research and production, fewer numbers of individuals per unit than most races, and they have some units with voracious appetites. They have neither speed nor great accuracy at long range, and their troops are fairly greedy when it comes time for wages. Nevertheless, Ogres are lead by the strong, and they are meant to provide a very destructive, direct sort of playing style.

Ogre Clubbers – Clubbers are Ogres beginning their lives as full Ogre warriors. They carry large clubs and wear scraps of hide and leather. These Ogres are suitable for waylaying merchants, standing guard, and plowing through enemy infantry.
Swordogres – are mockeries of the knights of smaller races. Ogres who have survived several battles cobble together bits of armor from their foes, draping themselves in patchwork plate and chain. They spend their coin on huge, albeit rusty and clumsy blades, which they use to cleave through most enemies before they have a chance to test their rusted and still bloody armor.
Rock-Throwers – Rock-Throwers are a simple solution to an age-old problem – how to harm enemies from afar. Ogre rock throwers hurl heavy stones great distances, ripping through enemies when they are on target. Fortunately for others, this is uncommon. They wear no armor nor carry other weapons, always holding one last boulder for melee purposes.
Mystics – Ogre mystics are strange keepers of Ogre wisdom, and are those who have the ability to heal the body and unweave the magics that bind to the land. They are easily spotted by their propensity to wear the bones of large animals which they kill in the course of their training. They do not hurl magic, though they are capable of a few other tricks.
War Mages – War Mages are disturbing combinations of powerful warriors, and capable spellcasters, with a dash of cruelty. War Mages choose the target that will look the best on fire and fleeing for their lives rather than always choosing the most strategic option. Other ogres fear them, which is the only way they maintain their niche in Ogre clans.
Cyclopian Champions – Cyclops are revered among Ogres. They dine of the freshest meat, the tastiest mead, and they receive the comeliest ogre brides. They grow strong and capable, and the best of these are selected as Champions. Naturally, they are not trained in the arts of using missile weapons of any kind. Cyclopian Champions are best halted by the best other races have to offer or the most powerful bolts of magic from your grimoire.

I'm also contemplating some lanky and malevolent half-ogres on the lower end for a weaker unit than clubbers and a catapult that flings an Orc projectile instead of stones, just for kicks lol.

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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by elliott20 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:15 am

the less melee unit will not really add much to the Ogre army, in my opinion. A catapult that does more damage than the rock throwers, however, would make the ogre army a more well rounded choice. Though, this could potentially undo your claim that ogres are not range troops.

so, summarize what you've put together

- low production
- low magic
- high maintenance cost (both food and gold)

advantages
- high attack
- high defense
- lots of hits

the question now that really brings it all together... how are their saves? what kind of special abilities do they have as a race? (I imagine wall crusher to be a staple for a lot of ogre troops)

as it stands right now, ogres seem like a good slave race over a master race simply because they don't seem like they just aren't as economically viable.

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Lucern
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Re: MoM IME Expanded

Post by Lucern » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:25 am

Although we do have some slave races - races that don't offer much of a reason to pick them as a starter - and depending on the buildings Ogres get to build they could certainly go that way - it's not really my intention to make races that people can't find a use for. Ogres will make good support cities, especially for Wizards controlling the more malevolent races. I do think, if this is done right, that there will be a purpose in playing them as well. Now, some races I could see being diverse enough and having a good enough range of units that I can see an empire made exclusively of them. The Ogres...not so much. I do see it possible to start as them and ensure that you've got an immediate advantage in terms of being able to take over other cities, using them for such lesser tasks as farming and generating wealth/magic as you create dominating stacks of ogres.

What do you think of these possible new abilities, given to some or most Ogre units?

Mighty blows: Some attacks are so great that they are best dodged rather than blocked. Enemies are -2 to defense vs this unit.
Long Reach: This unit has long limbs. Unless its opponent also has a long reach or the ability “Negate First Strike”, unit suffers 2 to his melee attack against this unit. First strikes work normally against this unit.

I would need to give the editor another glance, but I think, given that these are based on pre-existing abilities, that I can manage to put these in without too much trouble. Rock-Throwers wouldn't get long reach, as their reach isn't that long without a proper melee weapon. Both of these abilities are modest, but I like the effect of making certain types of enemies weaker in melee against ogres, boosting their crowd-control vs units with more figures than them especially. In any case, I'm eager to consider alternative abilities, balances, or new unit abilities that would subtly or drastically shape the strategic or tactical options of the race. Outside perspectives are often a lot clearer than what I've got going on. Case in point: I agree wholly with your points about weaker units than clubbers being unnecessary as well as the Orcshot Catapult contradicting the missile status of the Ogres. See, there I was distracted by the thought of actually seeing the orc flying across the screen :) As for resists, their health alone makes them fairly resistant to some kinds of spells, but, especially at lower experiences, they will be susceptible to spells like black sleep and confusion ( with low-med resistances at best). Regardless, their two top-tier units (war mages and cyclopian champions) I will consider a failure if they can't compare in the late game to the slingers, magicians, longbowmen, paladins, and war-trolls of the world.

On another note entirely, I made green and black versions of the Great/Sky drake today. I don't really have a place for them in the game, per se. They were quick, and I may find a use for them someday. Two thoughts were to put them in as bonus spells that will eventually be learnable only with the Conjurer retort. The other thought was to create another kind of book - one you could only find - something like a Tome of Summoning that would have a few spells of this type as a bonus for people who crack open tough nodes. A third and most likely option is to put them in caves or other areas and not have them controllable, but rather only have them as adversaries. Who are we to assume that we can control everything in the game, eh? ;) A mere 30 minutes of recoloring gets us just a bit more drake variety, in any case.

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/Lucern125/

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