Current state of MoM IME

[Implode]

Its about time I made a post about the current state of MoM IME and be totally honest about it, because I know there's still people reading this forum quite actively and I've even had a number of emails/private messages here from other developers who may be interested in helping. I believe the server Java port is something around 75% done... however it was 70% done back in September so to say progress has been slow is putting it mildly.

Most of the reason is because I've been so hooked on playing Perfect World ever since the US version came out that I've barely kept any time for anything else, the only times I've worked on MoM IME since are when I've had no internet connection to play PW (in airports, when I was away over Xmas, etc). I was starting to get fed up of PW (it becomes much more boring after lvl 70+) and without getting into details, recently I got very badly emotionally burned by someone on there, both of which made me have a major rethink about why I was playing PW so much... the end result being that I've completely changed the way I play it and why, and made it really fun again :) So for the forseeable future I don't see that changing.

To those developers who've offered to help, I'm sorry but I'm not even in a position to be able to move things forward on that basis. Giving you some kind of direction on what to work on, explaining various bits and pieces, and QCing any code you produce still takes up considerably more time that I'm prepared to devote to this right now.

I'm still sticking to saying that MoM IME isn't and never will be dead. It'll always be there for me to pick back up and I fully intend to, I just don't know when. I always go in cycles on these things... I'll go full out working or playing something for 6 months-2 years, then get sick of it and move onto something else, then come back to it later. So I expect at some stage I'm going to get sick of PW and come back to working on this... just not sure when that's going to be.

Sorry folks for the disappointing news, but I thought it was at least time I was totally honest about it!

[Lucern]

Thanks for the update, and for the straight assessment - MMOs are a unique breed, and I just activated a Warhammer Online account to play with my brother.

In any case, I'm still making graphics here and there until I hear otherwise. It's fun, regardless. I hope to show off some kobolds this weekend.

[CustodianV131]

What a distressing post. You really should break with the Perfect World addiction NOW! How else are you ever going to support my Master of Magic addiction? ;)

Good to hear that things are going well and that you're currently "stuck" on an MMO. Ive been there :) Good to have a honest update so we clearly know how things stand. I've my hopes up for Elemental: War of Magic http://elementalgame.com/ now to give me my turnbased strategy fantasy fix. Looking good!

Enjoy your time with Perfect World (never played that one myself, but refreshing that its not WoW ;) ) Hope that you'll be back to this project one day and finish it, it would be great to have a Master of Magic that plays well on modern OS'es. Hey at least you can make sure it will run great on Windows 7 also this way :)

Have fun!

Custo

P.S. Keep up the good work on the graphics/units Lucern, I do enjoy seeing them even if I can't use them in combat yet. :)

[Nehan]

Yes, I'm starting to worship elemental too :) .

still, anybody knows a hacker who can keep the perfect world servers down? It's a just cause (I'm maintaining the spell, no worries)! :D

[Tino Didriksen]

So...how about releasing what you have so far? Both Delphi and Java code, and let the community fill in?

[Implode]

So...how about releasing what you have so far? Both Delphi and Java code, and let the community fill in?

I will give access to my CVS server with all the source code on it for anyone who wants it, I've always said that... however its a tricky situation now because I don't want people running amuck changing all manner of things without me doing some level of QC on their changes (or at least giving some direction as to the way I saw things working). I'm not saying that to be selfish + controlling, but because I believe it it would end up being messy unmaintainable code.

[elliott20]

So...how about releasing what you have so far? Both Delphi and Java code, and let the community fill in?

I will give access to my CVS server with all the source code on it for anyone who wants it, I've always said that... however its a tricky situation now because I don't want people running amuck changing all manner of things without me doing some level of QC on their changes (or at least giving some direction as to the way I saw things working). I'm not saying that to be selfish + controlling, but because I believe it it would end up being messy unmaintainable code.

actually to me this makes perfect sense. Without some kind of QC guidance, the project could end up going in like, 5 different directions and that really can't help the project at all. If anybody really wants to help, I think it's totally fair, considering that this is implode's project, for him to direct us on how we are supposed to help. Otherwise, we really should just do our own projects instead.

[ragnar-gd]

actually to me this makes perfect sense. Without some kind of QC guidance, the project could end up going in like, 5 different directions and that really can't help the project at all. If anybody really wants to help, I think it's totally fair, considering that this is implode's project, for him to direct us on how we are supposed to help. Otherwise, we really should just do our own projects instead.

The thing is: We would have to reinvent the wheel again, if we want to re-do what he did with his delphi-client already. In all modding-scenes - and I'm currently working in one (infinity-engine), and been active in others (arianne, worldforge, oblivion/morrowind) - what he fears simply doesn't happen. Modders usually are respectful, as they KNOW that working on your own does not get you anywhere.
IMO, the idea of modding is based on the idea of sharing knowledge. If that does not happen, modding does not, either.
But this is the internet - everywhere help is needed, so anyone can choose his place. Which is what I will do. :(

[elliott20]

well, there's a distinction between modding and working on the same project.

I'm all for Implode to share his code, and let other people try their hand at modding the stuff. (and if he's been disciplined about it, share some documentation and notes he has on the stuff) that would be knowledge sharing. That is one thing, because all that's happening is that people are taking what he's done, and doing their own thing with it.

But to expect Implode to incorporate the material other people made into his own project? That takes a lot of coordination to get it to work right. Certainly if people can create pieces of work that is entirely modular, then a less "controlled" approach can be sustained. But from a project management stand point, you need to have SOME level of control and coordination or else you'll end up spending more time trying to sync up the work people have done than actually spending time developing the app.

[Coyote]

Then he should completely hand it over to one person willing to be a project manager. I mean, if he's dropping it for one or two years, that's logical. Someone else could get it done in that time.

He'll have his own copy and current status of his work, and when he comes back, if he isn't satisfied with what the other(s) have done, he's perfectly capable of resuming exactly where he left off - without having to worry about integrating anything else assuming he doesn't want to. This is what would happen anyway, as it currently stands. I don't see any harm in letting others try during the hiatus, as long as the original download he provides isn't altered.

[Darkpriest667]

I concur, if someone else is capable of doing it and he can keep his original code.. let them.... then he can go do whatever while those that want to work on the project advance it for those of us that are waiting.. I'd like to play the full version of this before im 30

[Virm]

There are two things to consider for what you're proposing, Coyote and Darkpriest667.

First: Although, based on past posts throughout the forum, there's a few people interested who would actually be capable of continuing the code-building needed to continue and complete the project, this is a significant undertaking for any individual and would require commitment from multiple people to become a project that could be called 'complete' within a year or two. I know that I don't have the time to commit to being either a project head or simple coder on such a project, and nobody else with the skills appears to have time to spare either, beyond what minor code thoughts have appeared on occasion throughout the forums.

Second: It's Implode’s code. To the best of my knowledge, he owns it in its entirety and any work that other individuals contribute to him towards the project is done so in a free-licensed manner granting Implode unrestricted rights to those contributions. In no way am I complaining about this, I would be surprised if it were any other way, as Implode began this as a personal project and it remains so. But this also means that distribution of the source for any reason must be entirely at Implode's discretion. There's also the concern of licensing if he does choose to release the source to anyone.

I, for one, am content to wait as long as it takes for MoM-IME to grow into the game it's intended to be, as envisioned by its developer, Implode.

[Darkpriest667]

you could die waiting...

I mean realistically how old is implode... how many years does he have left.. what if HE DIES before the code is finished

[Lucern]

lol, very dramatic, Darkpriest. Relax. He's in Canada. That means he's got access to some degree of healthcare :D

It's not in our hands. In truth, if there was a way to do it that a) would be practical and b) Implode felt good about which allowed others to help to move the project forward, I'd support that direction. I'm not a coder, so my support doesn't matter much lol. However, Implode has been clear in explaining his skepticism about the feasibility, at the time he wrote that anyway, of collaborating the efforts of multiple coders. If there's a way to achieve both of those points, I really think we should try it, but only if both of those points are met.

This is the closest anyone has ever been in remaking/improving Master of Magic. There have been many attempts. To get this far has been an amazing feat. Naturally I'm rooting for a win here.

Maybe there should be an X-prize for completing a Master of Magic remake...

[Tino Didriksen]

Well then, here is an open offer...

If the source and other assets are opened up, I have several servers to throw at the project for hosting repositories (Subversion / Git etc), wiki, bug tracker (Trac etc), game daemons, and whatever else might be needed to get a community going around the project.

Plus I am a coder, so I'd be interested in working on it myself. Actually been wanting to do a MoM remake myself for the past 10 years, and did start writing a few years back, but got caught up in other things. Bought the Strategy Guide too back then (was hard to track that sucker down). So instead of me starting again from scratch, I'd rather throw some weight behind this project.