Hello,
I know the forum is probably littered with these threads and they might be considered a little annoying but I just wanted to express my appreciation for what you're doing here.
I've been a fan of Master of Magic since my friend let me the 3.5 floppies. I'm an avid gamer and play all the top releases but I always find myself making time for MoM. There is just a quality about this game that is sublime but also difficult to put your finger on.
I've followed a lot of the MoM 'clone/remake' projects as they've come and gone and this is by far the most promising one to date. It's easy to loose that special something in a full remake and I think a 'rebuff' is absolutely the way to go, at least whilst deep pocketed development studios ignore calls for a sequel. Spirital successors have been great, I am a big fan of the AoW series but they aren't MoM.
Even just proper multiplayer support would be huge but I'm equally excited about the refined UI, configuration options and straightening up of those things that just didn't make sense or even work properly. And once you have those foundations in, the sky's the limit.
I've tried out the latest release and it's really promising.
Keep up the awesome work.
Appreciation
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Implode
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Re: Appreciation
No I really appreciate it actually, in fact the forum has been pretty much dead (meaning not a single post) for 2 weeks so its nice to see there's still some life out there ;) Also I was a bit disappointed that after I added in being able to attack cities and unit stacks (which was the one big thing missing from being able to play a sensible 2+ player game), changed the way creating/joining games worked so you'd join the server first, and trying to leave my own PC on running an "official" server for a few weeks after 0.9.2 was out hoping we'd actually get some multiplayer games going that in the first few weeks only one person connected to it (saw there was nobody else around, and left)... so that did kind of leave me feeling whether everyone was interested anymore...srw46 wrote:I know the forum is probably littered with these threads and they might be considered a little annoying
Implode.
Oh we're still interested!!! I think it's difficult as non developers of the game we don't know what works and what doesn't so it's a bit hard to play the game.
Then I think there are two non-essential features which pop up very quickly and make users feel like it's a very unfinished game, even when it's more playable than they might suspect:
Right click a location to recentre the overland map
Numeric keypad keys to move units around
I think if the game was really playable and most of the rules implemented. Trying to play it for more than 15 minutes would still feel frustrating to me without the two above.
Also for human-human multiplayer, saving the game, and being able to survive one of the player's clients crashing and getting them back into the game is important (maybe this already works but it didn't feel like I could leave a game and have it persist my dropping). Otherwise games just won't be playable until all the bugs are fixed and that might not happen for a while even if the game would still be fun in spite of a few bugs here and there.
I work in the software industry and I know it's really easy to say "We NEED these features". But what's really valuable is to know what can wait. I think there are a few on your list that can be pushed back without really stopping people from wanting to play MoM IME.
MoM IME is great, and I think it's very close to playable. Just my thoughts on why people aren't playing yet and what the easiest way to get there would be. Keep up the great work!
- Unit cost reduction from Coal and Iron Ore
- When building a settler, a city's population should be reduced by 1,000
- Handle Hydras 9 'figures'/heads properly
- Spell Ward currently picks a random realm of magic when you cast it - it needs to pop up a menu so the player can make a choice instead
- Combat Area Effects from City Enchantments, so that Heavenly Light and Cloud of Shadow work correctly
- Range penalties for non-magic range attacks; Long Range and Large Shield skills
- Special abilities affecting the order that attacks are resolved in combat, e.g. First Strike, Negate First Strike, Poison, Breath and Thrown attacks
- Generic handling of which unit abilities and spell effects negate each other, e.g. Negate First Strike negates First Strike, Poison Immunity negates Poison, Fire Immunity negates Immolation (and a whole lot more besides), Elemental Armour negates Resist Elements
- Dispelling unit, city and global enchantments and curses (taking into account bonuses from Chaos/Nature/Sorcery Mastery, Runemaster and 'Dispel True' versions)
- Ship movement working properly (e.g. moving back into cities), as well as loading and unloading
- Unrest reduction for each two regular units in a city
- Ruins rewards are needed
Then I think there are two non-essential features which pop up very quickly and make users feel like it's a very unfinished game, even when it's more playable than they might suspect:
Right click a location to recentre the overland map
Numeric keypad keys to move units around
I think if the game was really playable and most of the rules implemented. Trying to play it for more than 15 minutes would still feel frustrating to me without the two above.
Also for human-human multiplayer, saving the game, and being able to survive one of the player's clients crashing and getting them back into the game is important (maybe this already works but it didn't feel like I could leave a game and have it persist my dropping). Otherwise games just won't be playable until all the bugs are fixed and that might not happen for a while even if the game would still be fun in spite of a few bugs here and there.
I work in the software industry and I know it's really easy to say "We NEED these features". But what's really valuable is to know what can wait. I think there are a few on your list that can be pushed back without really stopping people from wanting to play MoM IME.
- Server doesn't currently validate spell pick pre-requisites (it only validates the total cost of the spell picks)
- Non-corporeal units should appear translucent in combat
- Add option to allow sorting spells in the spell book according to Magic Realm instead of Section
- Add overland map scroll speed as a slider on the options screen
- Dynamically size the tax collector form based on how many tax rates are defined (similarly to how the Select Target for overland Unit Spell form works)
MoM IME is great, and I think it's very close to playable. Just my thoughts on why people aren't playing yet and what the easiest way to get there would be. Keep up the great work!
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Implode
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Yup totally agree, that's why they're still on the "to do" list and not done yet :) Many (e.g. sorting the spell book) are because folks on here have pointed out bugs/ommissions/ideas and I add them to the to do list otherwise I know they'd get forgotten about!esper256 wrote:All these features are great but not essential for playing the game.
Numeric keys will be in 0.9.3. After that what I'm really aiming for is having a workable AI in 0.9.5, after that I'll certainly be looking at knocking some of those others off the list.
Thanks for the feedback :)
Implode.
esper256 is absolutely right.
For more than a year I've been checking the forum daily hoping a new version would come out. Then when that happened I would download it and try to start playing only to find that too much stuff is missing . When a moderately playable version comes (and judging from what you say this will be 0.9.6) you can be sure I'll start playing as much as I can both for fun and to help you find bugs and other problems.
Until then DOSBox is my friend :)
For more than a year I've been checking the forum daily hoping a new version would come out. Then when that happened I would download it and try to start playing only to find that too much stuff is missing . When a moderately playable version comes (and judging from what you say this will be 0.9.6) you can be sure I'll start playing as much as I can both for fun and to help you find bugs and other problems.
Until then DOSBox is my friend :)
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CustodianV131
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Just to let you know I'm also still tracking the progress you are making!
Very much looking forward to see you make it to version 0.9.5/6, seems I can replace the old mom with your new version from that point on.
Really like how well organized you are, hopefully this great version of MoM will see the light of day. The summon new MoM version has proven to be a very tricking spell indeed!
Best of luck and I'll keep checking from time to time! (No use in overloading you with implementation requests untill you've a stable version 1.0 running :D )
Very much looking forward to see you make it to version 0.9.5/6, seems I can replace the old mom with your new version from that point on.
Really like how well organized you are, hopefully this great version of MoM will see the light of day. The summon new MoM version has proven to be a very tricking spell indeed!
Best of luck and I'll keep checking from time to time! (No use in overloading you with implementation requests untill you've a stable version 1.0 running :D )
I must echo the others really.
I'm eager to see this project reach fruition. If there is any particular ways I can contribute than please let me know.
Perhaps you could make a thread asking for specific things to be stress tested or receive feedback on.
It's not going to be usefull to inform you of 101 things that need doing when you probably already know about them.
I'm eager to see this project reach fruition. If there is any particular ways I can contribute than please let me know.
Perhaps you could make a thread asking for specific things to be stress tested or receive feedback on.
It's not going to be usefull to inform you of 101 things that need doing when you probably already know about them.
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Implode
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Yeah I rather have been doing that... a couple of folks have helped me check into things that aren't clear from the strategy guide. And very interested to hear input on diplomacy (since its an area I've pretty much got zero interest in and so have no preset ideas about how it should work).srw46 wrote:Perhaps you could make a thread asking for specific things to be stress tested or receive feedback on.
Yeah I'm very glad that people aren't doing that... the stuff on the "to do" list isn't supposed to be a complete list, I'm well aware of 100s of things that don't work simply because I've not written them yet (especially skills like breath attacks, first strike, etc.)... the things I bother to list on the "to do" list are things that are a bit less obvious and so I might forget about otherwise. e.g. if when writing something I take a shortcut in how I write it or hard code the way it works, then I'll make a note that it needs reworking later.srw46 wrote:It's not going to be usefull to inform you of 101 things that need doing when you probably already know about them.
I'm pretty much in the same position then the other poster here . I've played MOM for about 10 years ( probably more ) and to know someone else is about to do another version make me pretty exited .. 
.
There is no so much to talk about diplomacy in MoM . It would be great if you manage to do some improvement in this if you have ideas .
treat : It was useless except in some rare case when you want to remove the last hope to a poor wizard you is about to lose anyway . In some rare cases he still have a common spell that you don't know about . Or else he try to praise you with some miserable amount of gold ( 100 gold or something useless like that ) . Much of the time the wizard just get upset .
peace treaty / alliance : You can't attack another wizard in a peace treaty without breaking it (duh!) . I think wizard with peace treaty tend also to avoid sending troops in your territory . Again it may be just because he don't send army against you . Alliance is just some kind of enhanced peace treaty . Some time the allied wizard will declare war against other wizard with you but only if you have a good chance to succeed . Allied wizard tend also to be a bit more patient about your troops wandering near their territory but not _that_ much .
exchange spell : As long as you have a spell that he can learn and he have a spell that you can learn and even if you are in bad terms with him but not if you are in war (duh!) . In that case you see a list of as much as 4 spell determined at random and you decide wich one you want to trade or not . You can repeat this some times before he get bored . Your relation is improving a bit when you trade good spell ( probably something to do with the RP cost of the spell )
Give tribute : you can give gold to another wizard (in the old version the amount of gold depend of the golds he already have (1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 , 100%) but i think you could go with another way to manage it ). In the old version that wasn't making a big impact unless you're able to give him 100% of his gold many time in a row (ex:he start with 100 gold , you give him 100 , 200 , 400 and then 800 gold .. Now for some strange reason he seem happy ^^ ) . You can also give spells , this is rarely useful since you can usualy trade spelles with him , but sometimes he don't have such spells to trade but you still want him to resist a bit more while you prepare an attack in the back of is own attackers :) . Once in a while , it happen that one of your ally provide you with _the_ spell you need to stay competitive (Ex : you are losing terrain against a death wizard and now you are fighting against your own dead friends when suddenly one of your allies give you the "true light" spell !).
The number of diplomatic exchange you can make with a wizard (especially trading spell ) is proportionnal to his "feeling" with you . Both in long and short term i think . So if he just broke a peace treaty you cannot expect him to be really receptive .
That is about all i know about diplomacy in MoM . I hope it will be of some use :) . Sorry if my english is not perfect ( i'm from Quebec ) . I read it pretty effortlessly but since i don't write that much that often it's probably not perfect :-/ .
Edit: oh ! one last thing :) i think relation a seperated in about 10 stade from hate to harmony in each of them there is 100 hidden point to pass from one point to another . I think some spell like subversion have description that mention those points :)
.There is no so much to talk about diplomacy in MoM . It would be great if you manage to do some improvement in this if you have ideas .
treat : It was useless except in some rare case when you want to remove the last hope to a poor wizard you is about to lose anyway . In some rare cases he still have a common spell that you don't know about . Or else he try to praise you with some miserable amount of gold ( 100 gold or something useless like that ) . Much of the time the wizard just get upset .
peace treaty / alliance : You can't attack another wizard in a peace treaty without breaking it (duh!) . I think wizard with peace treaty tend also to avoid sending troops in your territory . Again it may be just because he don't send army against you . Alliance is just some kind of enhanced peace treaty . Some time the allied wizard will declare war against other wizard with you but only if you have a good chance to succeed . Allied wizard tend also to be a bit more patient about your troops wandering near their territory but not _that_ much .
exchange spell : As long as you have a spell that he can learn and he have a spell that you can learn and even if you are in bad terms with him but not if you are in war (duh!) . In that case you see a list of as much as 4 spell determined at random and you decide wich one you want to trade or not . You can repeat this some times before he get bored . Your relation is improving a bit when you trade good spell ( probably something to do with the RP cost of the spell )
Give tribute : you can give gold to another wizard (in the old version the amount of gold depend of the golds he already have (1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 , 100%) but i think you could go with another way to manage it ). In the old version that wasn't making a big impact unless you're able to give him 100% of his gold many time in a row (ex:he start with 100 gold , you give him 100 , 200 , 400 and then 800 gold .. Now for some strange reason he seem happy ^^ ) . You can also give spells , this is rarely useful since you can usualy trade spelles with him , but sometimes he don't have such spells to trade but you still want him to resist a bit more while you prepare an attack in the back of is own attackers :) . Once in a while , it happen that one of your ally provide you with _the_ spell you need to stay competitive (Ex : you are losing terrain against a death wizard and now you are fighting against your own dead friends when suddenly one of your allies give you the "true light" spell !).
The number of diplomatic exchange you can make with a wizard (especially trading spell ) is proportionnal to his "feeling" with you . Both in long and short term i think . So if he just broke a peace treaty you cannot expect him to be really receptive .
That is about all i know about diplomacy in MoM . I hope it will be of some use :) . Sorry if my english is not perfect ( i'm from Quebec ) . I read it pretty effortlessly but since i don't write that much that often it's probably not perfect :-/ .
Edit: oh ! one last thing :) i think relation a seperated in about 10 stade from hate to harmony in each of them there is 100 hidden point to pass from one point to another . I think some spell like subversion have description that mention those points :)
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the.duckman
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Thank you
I just joined the forum to have an opportunity to say how much I appreciate of this project, and how impressed I am about the state it is in. This is by far the most advanced MoM clone I know of.
I am a bit surprised that this site is so hard to find. The wikipedia page doesn't tell you about it, neither does masterofmagic2.com
Would you appreciate "marketing" at this stage?
Are you looking for help? I an experienced Java developer, but I have no idea about Delphi.
Bye,
Michael
I am a bit surprised that this site is so hard to find. The wikipedia page doesn't tell you about it, neither does masterofmagic2.com
Would you appreciate "marketing" at this stage?
Are you looking for help? I an experienced Java developer, but I have no idea about Delphi.
Bye,
Michael
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Implode
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Wikipedia
It did at one stage! I added it on there! Then some guy did a bunch of edits to the page, one of which was to remove the link! I was pretty peeved but he had put a lot of work into improving the page to make it more like it needed to be - an intro to MoM for those who know nothing about it - so didn't just want to blat over what he'd done. You'll notice even the leylines link isn't to the leylines site, its to an article about it. So I put a comment in the relevant section of the discussion page here hoping he'd pick it up... which obviously hasn't happened.the.duckman wrote:The wikipedia page doesn't tell you about it
I tried searching for "Master of Magic" on google, my page is ranked #8 on google.ca but doesn't show up at all on google.co.uk... weird. Don't know about google.com since it redirects me straight to google.ca!
Implode.